It's burning about 81/2 gallons per engine, and 17 gallons an hour ain't bad for a twin. [14], A Twin Comanche was flown in the 1992 and 1994 French Arc en Ciel air races. Piper produced certified FIKI Aztecs but I think those were only in the last series (F) and maybe only the last few years of production? ): 3600 … Read More "Piper 1976 PA-32-300 Lance" Air Safety Institute, Piper Comanche Safety Review, November 1, 1997. Economy at 12,000 is about 158 KTAS burning 13 gph. They are properly termed "turbonormalized" since the compression ratio and maximum manifold pressure remained unchanged. The PA-23-150 Apache seats up to 4 passengers plus 1 pilot. This aircraft was designated the Apache 235. The AFM said something very close to: Flight into light to moderate icing conditions is approved if the aircraft is equipped with . 22 GPH – Consult POH System Description: The airplane is equipped with a standard fuel system consisting of four vented fuel tanks, two fuel tank selector valves, fuel strainers, two manual primers, an engine-driven fuel pump for each engine, and an auxiliary electric fuel pump for each engine. Since there is no accompanying power increase, the B/C models simply give owners a fuel vs. passenger tradeoff. That's one of the best things about PoA...the knowledge exchange. With FAA approval the twin carried a total of 252 gallons in 11 tanks and at maximum power went over 2,100 miles nonstop between Marrakech, Morocco and Istanbul, Turkey in 11:19 hours.[15]. http://www.pilotsofamerica.com/forum/showthread.php?t=85587, (You must log in or sign up to reply here. At the time, well known aviation journalist, Richard L. Collins, was highly critical of the FAA's multiengine training standards which encouraged unsafe Vmc demonstrations at low altitude. [11], In the 1970s, the FAA changed its training standards and required flight instructors to obtain a separate rating to teach in multiengine aircraft. ). One was scrapped by Piper and none remain registered with the FAA as of November 2019.[8]. Pilots are required to use care to avoid overboosting at low altitudes, since no overboost popoff valves are used. Roberston STOL kit lowers VMC to 80 MPH. Fuel burn at typical cruise settings is approximately 16 gal/h (58.7 L/h) with a cruise speed of 165 kn. The Piper PA-40 Arapaho had been scheduled to replace the PA-39 in the 1973-4 timeframe. Landing gear type: Tri/Retr. ), Paraphrasing the late Gordon Baxter "The cost of flying today is exactly the same as it was 50 years ago...all you got...". FindAircraft.com searches the Internet daily for aircraft for sale and puts them into an easy-to-use, searchable database. : 2000 Propeller: Const. Great STOL capabilities for a cross-country airplane. and it went on to list about five items of equipment. I used to own a 1974 Aztec with boots, hot props, hot plate, deice shield, etc. Garmin GPSmap 296 with AirGizmo Mount, Dual TKM MX11 COMs, Dual Narco 121 NAVs, Narco DME 190, KT76TSO Xponder, Uavionix tailBeacon. I don't think it does. Following a string of accidents involving pilot loss-of-control in single-engine flight (due to engine failure, or in pilot training for engine-failure conditions), Piper sought to alter the plane's single-engine behavior at low airspeeds (such as takeoff and landing). Of course, the 182 carries 100 pounds more and cruises 25 knots faster, burning 3 to 4 GPH more fuel. Her operating costs are more comparable to a big single as she has two little engines (160 hp) rather than one big one. I've never bothered to add everything up, but I use the $275-300/hour number for light twins of the Aztec/310/Baron category. The insurance and maintenance of a twin will be a wash, considering the high hull rates on the more expensive airplane. In 1997, the Aircraft Owners and Pilots Association (AOPA) Air Safety Institute published a safety review of the Comanche series aircraft and concluded that the Twin Comanche showed no greater tendency for Vmc roll-over spins than comparable aircraft. With tip tanks, the aircraft holds 120 gallons (454 L) of fuel. On 21 March 1964, a Piper PA-23-160 Apache (G-ASHC) crashed on its approach to Aintree racecourse, near Liverpool, killing all 5 on board. [7], The Twin Comanche was produced on the same Lock Haven, Pennsylvania, production line as its single-engined cousin; production ceased when the factory was flooded in 1972. Advertisement Piper 1976 PA-32-300 Lance Engine make/model: Lyc. The Piper PA-23, named Apache and later Aztec, is a four-to-six-seat twin-engined light aircraft aimed at the general aviation market that also saw service with the United States Navy and other countries' military forces in small numbers. The Piper PA-30 Twin Comanche is an American twin-engined cabin monoplane designed and built by Piper Aircraft. / 454 Liters Weights • Maximum Takeoff Weight: 4,340 lbs. Piper Aircraft, which has been around since the late 1920’s and perhaps best known for the Piper J-3 Cub, started producing multi-engine aircraft in the 1950s starting with the PA-23 Apache. When compared with the Seminole, the Twin Comanche goes faster, carries more, burns less fuel, climbs more rapidly and ultimately higher, is quieter. Every one, no exceptions, was under the [mistaken] impression that Piper had. That makes a lot more sense. Not sure if that still applies anymore or not. Factory turbocharged engines became available with the B model. As the model years progressed, the payload Delta between the two increased. We expect to have them resolved in the next 24 hours We calculate Aircraft Valuations, Total Ownership Cost which include Fixed Costs such as Insurance, Hangar, and Depreciation, as well as Variable Costs such as Fuel Consumption (GPH and dollar cost). The way I fly, I average about 15 gph. It seems like my guess is pretty close to what those who have added it up have come up with. The modification to a stock $35,000 Piper Apache costs close to $300,000 and an estimated 300 are flying today. My Aztec left the factory with boots, electric cuffs on the props, heated glass windshield plate, ice light (mounted on the left engine cowl and illuminates the wing leading edge), higher amp alternators on both engines, a modified heated alternate air intake and ice shields on the nose panels in line with the propeller arcs. Fuel burn at typical cruise settings is approximately 16 gal/h (58.7 L/h) with a cruise speed of 165 kn. Gross weight (lbs. He flew it from the United Kingdom to Nigeria, where he held a diplomatic post; then later returned in it to the United Kingdom and flew it to Japan when he took up a diplomatic post in that country. Pilots flying this modification have reported an increased useful load, better climb performance, increased cruise speed, lower fuel burn at cruise, and safer single-engine characteristics. That is not quite a correct statement of the law, but it is very confusing and not a lot of people fully understand it, including a number of FAA inspectors I have run into. One of the three Arapahos was destroyed in a flat spin accident in 1973; the test pilot, Clay Lacy, successfully escaped. [4][2][3][6], As of November 3, 2019, 80 PA-39's remain on the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) registry. Airplane is a 1979 Piper Aztec 'F' with naturally aspirated IO-540 Lycomings; approximately 5500 TT and 1300 on the engines. The Twin Comanche was designed to replace the Piper Apache in the company's lineup of products. : 2200 Fuel type: … Read More "1954 Piper Apache 150 N1305P" Legendary Apache Conversion Turns Piper’s Lovable “Sweet Potato” into a Better Bird ... Plus, those two amazing Lycoming 200 hp engines burn the same (or even less) fuel than one Continental IO-550. Collins, Richard, "What about the Twin Comanche? Piper Malibu Mirage Performance and Specifications . I keep wanting to purchase my "last plane" and a light twin seems like a great way to really maximize my commitment to airplane ownership (. It is the only US aircraft to have raced twice around the world. As we looked at the 100 most recent reports of accidents of the Piper Apache and Aztec series we were struck by the low number of runway loss of control (RLOC) accidents—an indication of airplanes with docile ground handling—and the relatively high percentage of fuel-related accidents. Planephd allows comparison of thousands of airplanes. 1977 PIPER SENECA II, Multi Engine Piston, 1977 Piper Seneca II, 7126 TTSN, 2018/2018 SMOH, Garmin GNS430W, 696, GTX330, King KMA20. Auto Fuel STCs are approved on 48 different engine types and 100+ airframes including nearly all 80/87 octane engines and the majority of airplanes in which these engines were installed. mitch 1345P. I missed the 3 year part. I would bet that your AFM says something very similar. Much appreciated!! I got to research this all very carefully when one of the Grand Rapids, MI FSDO inspectors told me I couldn't fly that Aztec in the ice, even though it was on our 135 certificate. The flight had taken off from Luton Airport and included broadcaster Nancy Spain , who was covering the Grand National, and her friend Joan Werner Laurie , … With cruise speeds as fast at 170 knots, along with miserly fuel burn, the Twin Comanche proved popular among … A complex light twin, with retractable landing gear, seating 4 (in original models) to 6 (in later models), and cruise speeds ranging from 160-210 mph on twin 150-160 horsepower engines, it competed with the more-powerful Cessna 310 and Beech Baron, and later with Piper's other light twins.[2][3][4]. ." Total Fuel Burn/ Hr 17 9 Piper Geronimo Verses Piper Aztec Take-off distance, 50Ft obstacle (FT) 650 2119 Today I did an informal poll of 5 professional pilots that I know, all of whom have Aztec time earlier in their careers (a couple of them had some influence over my decision to buy one over other twins). Please don't text me just call, When you've decided you want to look at it and discuss buying then call me, dont text me. Burning (under an STC) a total of only about 16 gallons of auto gas per hour, the We still have non-alcoholic 87 unleaded here in Oklahoma and that really lowers the operational costs. Insurance was a little lower and hanger was higher so it balances out. [9] Collins pointed out in another article that year that one FBO had suffered four fatal Vmc roll-over spins. It was a twin-engined development of the PA-24 Comanche single-engined aircraft. He had the 60-gallon tanks as opposed to the optional 90-gallon-total fuel tanks, and burned 13.5 gallons per hour when power of the retractable airplane was set to 23 inches of manifold pressure and 2,400 revolutions per minute. True 150 Kts with 60 Ltr per hour total fuel burn. 15 GPH fuel burn at cruise. Selling my 1958 Piper Apache 160 VH-DRR Two were in a Twin Comanche, One in a Beech Travel Air and one in a Beech Baron. These two numbers seem incredibly high for an Aztec. • The plane has de-icing boots on its leading edges, de-icing for the props and a heated windshield. Three versions of the PA30 were produced: the original, a B model, and a C model. Careful leaning could probably get it even lower, and it's burning cheap 80 octane, besides. A version with turbocharged engines for higher altitude flight was also developed, using IO-320-C1A engines of the same nominal power. Piper chose at that time to focus on its equally popular Cherokee 140/180/235/Arrow line, manufactured in Florida, and its highly popular twin-engined Seneca, which is essentially a Twin Cherokee Six. In 1994 Jayne and her daughter, Patricia Jayne (Pat) Keefer won the FAI Gold Medal in what, so far, is the longest race in history at over 21,000 miles flown May 1–24, 1994. A variant with counter-rotating propellers was designated the Piper PA-39 Twin Comanche C/R. Data from Jane's All The World's Aircraft 1971–72[16], Media related to Piper PA-30 Twin Comanche at Wikimedia Commons, American twin-engined cabin monoplane built 1962-1972. KX170B, Piper Alt... Indy Air Sales LLC Anderson, IN - … Lycoming Service Instruction 1009AV, dated July 13, 2013. I won the argument, though I had to get the higher ups in Washington to straighten out the locals. Total Time 4879.4, Engines 332.5 SMOH, Props 332 Since New (No ADs). ", Flying, March 1969, p. 46. Apache’s short and squat looks, the “Twinkie” was rakish, with a sloped windshield, a pointed nose, tiger shark engine nacelles and even optional tip tanks. Piper subsequently expanded the counter-rotating engine development to its other light twins. Current IFR. but I don't guess the insurance swings too much across the country. Another contemporary competitor to the Twin Comanche was the Beechcraft Travel Air. Horsepower: 235 Gross Weight: 4800 lbs Top Speed: 176 kts Empty Weight: 2735 lbs Cruise Speed: 166 kts Fuel Capacity: 144 gal Stall Speed (dirty): 54 kts Range: 710 nm Takeoff: Landing: Ground Roll: 830 ft Ground Roll 950 ft: Over 50 ft obstacle: 1280 ft Over 50 ft obstacle: 1360 ft Rate Of Climb: 1450 fpm Rate of Climb (One Engine): 220 fpm Ceiling: 17200 ft Ceiling (One Engine): 6600 ft The normally aspirated aircraft was equipped with two 4-cylinder 160 hp (120 kW) Lycoming IO-320-B1A fuel injected engines, but 200 hp (150 kW) engines were available as a modification by Miller Aviation. IMPORTANT NOTICE 11/15/2016 21:07 GMT We are currently upgrading our site and are having some site issues. Had suffered four fatal Vmc roll-over spins 60 Ltr per hour Wet lower and hanger was higher so it out... 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